37 Responses to “Taking Attendance, 7/12/2010”

1. Chris Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm

   Not to sound like a comment spammer, but: nice stats - thanks for compiling these.

   And not that it takes anything away from West Texas for their great attendance numbers, but this is their 2nd season, not their debut.

2. admin Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

   Ah, I did not know that, thanks. I didn’t track PDL numbers last year. Thought they were brand new for some reason. Is the stadium new?

3. Jarrett C Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

   While I don’t have the facts handy, I’m assuming Charleston season tix prices went down since the USL-2 season is shorter. I’m very intrigued by the way reduced travel cost will balance against fewer dates to make revenue. It will be very interesting to see if Charleston stays put next year or bounces back up to Division 2

4. admin Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 2:04 pm

   Battery tickets are $18, $15, $12 and $10. I don’t know how that compares to 2009, but it seems reasonable.

5. admin Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

   That’s single-game.

   I don’t have 2009 info, but in 2008, Battery season tickets were $150 for an individual in the West stand and $120 for an individual in the East stand. This year they’re $180 and $150, respectively.

6. Chris Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 2:10 pm

   I’m not too familiar with West Texas’ stadium, but I think it is a nice, new facility that’s shared with a minor league baseball team. Not a shared *field*, though. As I understand it, there are separate fields, but common parking, concessions, etc., somehow.

7. OleGunnar20 Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 2:14 pm

   a few things:

   A. the attendance for the last Philly Union game was 17,183 not 17,158. the union’s own web site has that number and that is the number they tweeted during the game. the mlssoccer.com site has the wrong number. this makes the total attendance for the union 95,846 and the average 23,962.

   B. according to the Fire website (for the first few games) and then mlssoccer.com for the games that the Fire website does not list the attendance for the attendance for the 7 Fire home games have been: 20,276; 11,312; 13,224; 12,522; 14,658; 13,607; and 17,847 for a total attendance of 103,446 and an average of 14,778.

   C. according to the ussf’s d2 website and individual game reports the attendance for the 8 PR Islander home games have been: 2,248; 5,077; 2,642; 2,098; 2,122; 1,542; 2,901 and 1,089 for a total attendance of 19,719 and an average of 2,465.

   D. according to the ussf’s d2 website and individual game reports the attendance for the 9 NSC Minnesota Stars home games have been: 2,310; 627; 753; 1,576; 1,562; 746; 1,152; 2,136 and 1,803 for a total attendance of 12,665 and an average of 1,407.

   typos happen all of the time so no big deal just wanted to share my numbers. i have to check mine 5 times to fix all of my typos but i did check these numbers again before posting this comment for what it’s worth.

   as for conflicting numbers from sources i try and go with the most reliable source. that would be the mls team itself (and the tweet during the game and that the union’s number was what showed up on foxsoccer and other sources obviously supplied by them) over the error prone mlssoccer website and i tend to go with the ussf d2 website and game reports for official numbers ever since i saw a number thousands higher for an NSC Minnesota Stars game on the very error prone NASL site.

8. admin Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

   Thank you! I will check all of those. Until I can vet numbers at the end of a season, I’m never 100% sure of the numbers on an ongoing basis. And MLS and I still have some conflicts over numbers from years ago. Gracias.

9. admin Says:
   July 12th, 2010 at 2:26 pm

   A. Okay, I’ll change the Philly number. Doesn’t help me answer the question of why it wasn’t 18,500. I assumed they’d be 18,500+ every game.

   B. My Chicago games are 20,276, 11,312, 13,224, 12,552*, 14,658, 13,607 and 17,847. So I see what I did there.

   C. I have for PR: 2,498*, 5,077, 2,682*, 2,098, 2,122, 1,542, 2,901 and 1,089. So either revisions or keystroke errors on two of those.

   D. My Minnesota numbers were: 2,310, 627, 753, 1,576, 1,562, 746, 1,152, 2,136 and 1,653*. I got the 1,653 from the NASL site but I saw the 1,803 number on Inside Minnesota Soccer. So I’ll check that out as well.

   Wait, you mean the NASL site is error-prone?

10. OleGunnar20 Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 2:30 pm

    i find that using the ussf website is the best for getting the D2 numbers.

    http://ussf.demosphere.com/Schedules/2010/20952154.20104.html

    it is really easy to click on any team and see the list of results below the roster information. clicking on any score will give you the game report with the attendance.

    that NASL site is pretty sad.

11. OleGunnar20 Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    and as for the Union. there is probably a price to pay to having so many home games so close together. a bit of fatigue by the casual/newest fans and perhaps a bit of a crunch on being able for non STH to afford so many games so close together.

    another great thing about that USSF-D2 site is that the numbers are very quickly updated.

    and don’t even get me started about typos and transposing numbers. it happens all of the time for me especially since i insist on having my excel spreadsheet at such microscopic font sizes.

12. admin Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    Honestly, you’re not going to get me to take out the violin for Philadelphia. They went six weeks without a home game after 30 years with no team, and 14 days between home games is a problem all of a sudden?

13. OleGunnar20 Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    no no. that there are so many home games now, in such a short time is more of the “problem”. all of their home games are now crunched or compressed into a much smaller window so i can see how some fans might miss more games than if they had been “properly” spread out over the whole season. might not be a factor but i cannot think of anything else. i guess we will see over the next few weeks.

14. ERic Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Just to throw in another pair of eyes — my numbers match Ole’s. And, like him, I use the USSF website.

15. admin Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 3:07 pm

    There was less clicking involved on the NASL website, but if there’s corrections to be made after the fact, I guess it’s less efficient in the end.

    Shocks me that a guy who can’t crop photographs can’t do numbers, either.

    Thanks, guys.

16. pedant Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    Kenn, it is Major League Soccer, not The Major League Soccer. You know better than that.

    Apart from that, interesting as always. Who owns the Bradenton Academics? Do they need to draw fans and make money? Or are they bankrolled to the point that it doesn’t matter?

17. admin Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 3:43 pm

    I have decided I shall refer to it as The Major League Soccer from now on, to point out how completely batshit insane it is for commentators - including guys who PLAYED IN THE LEAGUE - to say “The MLS.”

    My guess is that IMG is in charge of the Bradenton Academics, as they play at IMG’s academy in Bradenton and have “IMG Bradenton Academics” as their name. So, like many PDL teams, I don’t think paying customers is a big deal.

18. McLean FC Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 4:52 pm

    If you remove the attendance totals for the USSF D2 teams that’ll be in MLS by 2012, you get a total of 189,652 in 65 games - an average of 2,917 per game.

    And to think, if only there was pro/rel all these attendance ailments would be magically fixed…

19. Krammerhead Says:
    July 12th, 2010 at 7:36 pm

    My guess that the reason it matters not to Charleston fans what level league they are in is that the level of soccer is secondary to the fans that go to their games, and that’s great for them. I’m not sure fans in other markets would feel the same.

    Also to be considered in their increase in attendance is the fact that they are the class of that division, something they weren’t last year in USL-1. Fans like a winner regardless of level of play. Kind of like when the Calgary Storm in the PDL drew great numbers when they finished first in the Northwest and made the final, but after moving up to the A-League where they weren’t good, the numbers dropped.

20. Howie Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 12:18 am

    That’s a great point, McLean FC. Frankly, it’s a bit concerning– not in the ridiculous pro/rel sense but in the fact that the US soccer structure’s 2nd division people have really struggled to sustain a solid league. It could collapse outright in 2012.

    It probably doesn’t mean a lot in the context of MLS, but I’ve always felt that stronger lower tiers– with viable local clubs for fans in a variety of cities– were keys to developing any kind of soccer culture here.

21. Marc Silverstein Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 5:34 am

    I will email the NPSL Commish this morning ans see what he says (if anything) about getting you the attendance information that you need.

22. admin Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 5:39 am

    At the moment, Charleston IS in first place, but only by four points (with a game in hand). But they’ve had years when they finished first (2002 and 2003, winning the league in ‘03) and years when they finished 8th and 9th and out of the playoffs (in 04 and 05) and their attendance didn’t seem to react as quickly as you’d be asking it to in this scenario:

    2002 - 1st, Southeast, Conf. Semifinals..3,320
    2003 - 1st, Southeast, Champions………3,969

    2004 - 8th, Eastern, out of playoffs…..3,715
    2005 - 9th, USL-1, out of playofs……..3,649

    Charleston draws because Charleston is a good organization that knows how to sell tickets and they offer a quality experience. By and large (with exceptions), good organizations draw and bad ones do not. It’s not just a matter of “win and you’ll draw.” If it was, 90% of resources in a given club would be put towards the effort to win, and they’re not

    And Calgary’s problems went far, far beyond their play on the field when they went from the PDL (where they averaged 2,003 in 2001) to the A-League (where they drew 1,458 in 2002). Not all organizations devote the necessary organizational resources to a move upwards. They just figure they’ll be fine because if they draw X in a lower level, they’ll just naturally draw 2X or something at a higher level. That’s why I hope Dayton knows what they’re doing.

    And, of course, pro/rel would boost all of these numbers by 100% and cure shingles as well.

    People tend to overrate the impact of winning and losing on attendance figures sometimes.

23. admin Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 5:42 am

    And, Howie, as for the 2nd division, the thing that stands out is not how fragile it is or how resilient it is…it’s how really unchanged it is from the year before and the year before that. If it didn’t have the name USSFD2 and you didn’t know about the drama, this season would look pretty much like the last several seasons in terms of what teams draw, teams that are really good organizations and teams that can’t get out of their own way.

    I can’t see the whole structure “collapsing,” but I do think this offseason will be very interesting. I don’t see either side as a clear-cut choice for sanctioning from USSF, and, quite frankly, some of USL’s moves on the 2nd division side are very curious to me.

24. admin Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 5:44 am

    Edmonton also drew 2,903 for an exhibition against Ottawa the other night, which is encouraging. But you didn’t have to spend a million on players to achieve that. In fact, you’d better achieve that without spending a million on players because at that small stadium, you’ve got no chance of making a million back.

25. kebzach Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Kenn, have you mentioned to @kylemartino how silly “THE MLS” sounds? Because I don’t want to ruin your day or anything, but I’m not sure if he’s a loyal reader of this site.

26. admin Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 10:44 am

    I’m sure he’s not. But he’s not the first and probably won’t be the last to do it. I don’t have many loyal readers, but I’m ever-so-appreciative of the ones I do have.

27. Dale Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    From a loyal reader;

    What happened to the Rhino’s? I know they had the ownership problems and such, but they have moved into a nice stadium and they are struggling to get half the crowd they used to have in the baseball stadium. Surely, the fans come to see soccer and don’t really care about the teams financial situation.

    It seems like just yesterday they were the toast of D2 soccer. Now it seems like they are just toast.

28. admin Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 6:18 pm

    I wouldn’t say they’re toast (though they nearly were). It’s likely that (a) some people are gunshy, having been burned by the previous owners and ( b) they’re not giving away as many tickets as they did back in the day.

    Also, fans don’t just come. You have to devote resources to get them to come. And you can’t make a business of it unless you actually SELL those tickets. So the “team’s financial situation” (if it includes having fewer resources to devote to sales & marketing) does impact attendance.

29. kebzach Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    The situation in Rochester is probably like the situation at a restaurant after it gets closed in the short-term for a health violation. Most people don’t bang the doors open the first day it’s cleared to serve again.

30. admin Says:
    July 13th, 2010 at 6:49 pm

    There’s that, too.

31. Rethinking Division-2 Pro Soccer in North America – Part 2 | Inside Minnesota Soccer Says:
    July 14th, 2010 at 3:02 am

    [...] at the attendance numbers of Division-2 in the US, average attendance was 4,408 as of July 12 of this year. However, subtracting attendance numbers from Portland and Vancouver who will be [...]

32. Brian D Says:
    July 14th, 2010 at 11:06 am

    re: the Philly game-
    It was nice during the game, but there were horrible T-storms all day in the region. I imagine that killed off some enthusiasm, and ruined any walk-up sales that might have happened.

33. admin Says:
    July 14th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

    Wait, what? Again, 30 years without a team, second home game in your own stadium and 17k people who came to the opener at the Linc couldn’t be buggered to show up because it rained?

34. Matt Says:
    July 14th, 2010 at 1:35 pm

    Absolutely unacceptable that New England has averaged ~11k, when you take an average of NYRB and Phillly = ~18k. Clearly the problem is not the fan base, its the team itself (and more specifically, the poor stadium, disinterested ownership group, etc.). Ugh.

35. John Says:
    July 17th, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    It’s not good that despite having an announced attendance of 17,000 and winning the game in the last minute of the match (albeit on a PK) the Union article on the main Philly newspaper website is 5 grafs long and is from the Associated Press.

36. Marc Silverstein Says:
    July 20th, 2010 at 12:22 pm

    I asked the NPSL and they said that they’d rather not announce an attendance of 12 in New Hampshire…but they’d be happy to provide you with the average attendance in Chattanooga of 4000+

37. admin Says:
    July 20th, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    And this, boys and girls, is why you don’t see the NPSL attendance figures in the above compilation. Thank you and good night.

Leave a Reply

Name (required)

Mail (will not be published) (required)

Website